NFL ignores Deflategate Science at Patriots' Expense

[Mazz22]

First, let me assure you I have absolutely zero problem with reading comprehension. In fact, it's my job. Your responses, however, lead me to believe just the opposite.

So, back to breaking the rules. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. If there was no competitive advantage, they wouldn't have racked up about $2 mil in fines and lost draft picks.

See how that works?

It is amusing that Denver fans come here to talk about cheating. Talk about pot and kettle. Good heavens ... better if they stick to their boards and hope that another SB blow out is not on its way given they have never ever been competitive in one without cheating the cap ...

 

[TheBSPolice]

If there was no competitive advantage, they wouldn't have racked up about $2 mil in fines and lost draft picks.

See how that works?

So using that same argument, you must believe that Brady achieved a competitive advantage by reducing PSI in the game balls. After all, a million dollars of fines and lost draft picks were assessed.

See how that works?

 

[PatsFanLisa]

So using that same argument, you must believe that Brady achieved a competitive advantage by reducing PSI in the game balls. After all, a million dollars of fines and lost draft picks were assessed.

See how that works?

You see, the difference is that there was actual proof of what Denver did.

Zero in New England.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Winner, by knockout in the first round, PFL!

 

[TheBSPolice]

I didn't claim my list was definitive. But the list of winners is still valid.

Ranking NFL teams' scandals by using Cheatpoints doesn't invalidate the scandals, right?

Even calling everything on that site a "scandal" is slanted. A lot of it is individual players getting busted for a positive drug test, something that has literally happened to every team.

The actual incidents cited are valid, but you have to sift through miles of crap that has been piled around the actual information to find the facts.

You're here to discuss how your team and its fans are superior to us and ours. And to demonstrate how we are biased, and you are not.

You're failing the mission.

You won't find a single post where I claim the Broncos or their fans are better than the Patriots or their fans. I haven't even talked a sliver of smack about the AFCCG. I have apologized to a couple people here for inadvertently lumping them in with other fans, and I have acknowledged some of the failings of Broncos fans.

And while, yes, I think many of you are biased, it's no different in the Broncos fanbase, or the Steelers, or probably any team's fans in any sport.

You're creating a narrative for me that just isn't supported by the posts I've made, just because you don't like my points of view.

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

You see, the difference is that there was actual proof of what Denver did.

Zero in New England.

You're moving the goalposts. Earlier you indicated that because they were fined and lost draft picks they gained a competitive advantage. When I point out that New England was fined and lost draft picks they must therefore also have received a competitive advantage, you bring up the issue of proof.

But I'll move with you. Since there is proof of the crime, you should have no trouble elaborating on what precise advantage was gained by paying Elway and Davis later, without altering their cap values at any time.

 

[HSanders]

First of all, the agreements with the players were undisclosed to the NFL, so that suggests the people involved knew they wouldn't fly were they vetted properly. Meaning they got an advantage from not having them vetted because had they been, they wouldn't have been able to do that.

Second of all, what would Denver have had to do with those players transaction wise had they not agreed to deferred payments with interest? Cut them maybe? Having to cut players you want to keep but finding away around it is why the NFL does not allow "stashing" guys on IR, which is definitely an advantage as it allows a team to keep a player they want (and in that case they still absorb the cap hit I believe).

Tags' administration was much more responsible, circumspect and rational with their punishments than this current one (which has screwed up EVERY SINGLE ISSUE they have dealt with Pats or non Pats), so I believe there was real reason to sanction them.

 

[TheBSPolice]

First of all, the agreements with the players were undisclosed to the NFL, so that suggests the people involved knew they wouldn't fly were they vetted properly. Meaning they got an advantage from not having them vetted because had they been, they wouldn't have been able to do that.

The people who were responsible did apparently know that they weren't allowed to do it, and were subsequently fired for it. They got the advantage of cash flow to meet their payment schedule on the new stadium, but that doesn't mean there was a competitive, on the field advantage.

Second of all, what would Denver have had to do with those players transaction wise had they not agreed to deferred payments with interest? Cut them maybe? Having to cut players you want to keep but finding away around it is why the NFL does not allow "stashing" guys on IR, which is definitely an advantage as it allows a team to keep a player they want (and in that case they still absorb the cap hit I believe).

Maybe cut John Elway and Terrell Davis lol? Maybe not. This wasn't an issue of cap room. The Broncos organization had payments to make towards the new stadium in addition to their payroll obligations. They didn't have the cash to make both and asked Elway and Davis to wait on their paychecks. There was no opportunity to "stash" guys or keep people they would have had to cut. Everyone on the roster was under the salary cap, and Elway's and Davis' cap number reflected the amount they were due. Their cap numbers were in no way reduced by the deferred payments. If they had not committed the infraction, the organization would likely have borrowed money from a bank, or Pat Bowlen would have had to use his personal money to carry them through the shortfall. Somebody in accounting thought they could get by without doing either and got busted.

Tags' administration was much more responsible, circumspect and rational with their punishments than this current one (which has screwed up EVERY SINGLE ISSUE they have dealt with Pats or non Pats), so I believe there was real reason to sanction them.

There WAS every reason to sanction them. The rules were broken. Bowlen owned up to it, apologized, fired the staff members responsible, and took the punishment with no argument. Part of the reason these type of infractions need to be punished harshly, even if no competitive advantage is gained, is because of the dangerous precedent that is set by teams asking players to defer payments. Obviously, John Elway and Terrell Davis aren't going to punished for refusing, but what about someone clinging to a roster spot? What if another team tries to manage cash flow by leveraging all of their players on the bubble? "Can you take your paycheck next year to help the team with cash flow? No? Okay, good luck with your next team!"

There's a reason it's illegal and the Broncos deserve the full punishment even if their particular incident didn't actually do any harm.

 

[Beaglebay]

"And while, yes, I think many of you are biased, it's no different in the Broncos fanbase, or the Steelers, or probably any team's fans in any sport."



Yet you made a conscious effort to register here to discuss fan bias instead of any of the other 30 teams' boards.

Why?

 

[TheBSPolice]

"And while, yes, I think many of you are biased, it's no different in the Broncos fanbase, or the Steelers, or probably any team's fans in any sport."



Yet you made a conscious effort to register here to discuss fan bias instead of any of the other 30 teams' boards.

Why?

Honestly? I'm generalizing here, so apologies in advance to those for whom this doesn't apply, but many of you think the Patriots are hated for their success. This isn't generally true in my experience. It's the fans. Many Patriot fans weren't even football fans until recently, but project a smug arrogance about success while simultaneously defending questionable behaviors. Despite winning 4 Lombardi trophies in the past 15 years, many of you claim NFL conspiracies exist to keep the Patriots down. When the Patriots lose, an event that happens to even the best of teams, there is a litany of excuses from those same NFL conspiracies, to the officiating, to injuries, etc.

I'm fascinated by the psychologies inherent in these behaviors, and equally fascinated by how those of you who are actually life long, true fans, tolerate the bandwagoners who spout so much nonsense.

The other fanbases just don't have as much of these dynamics present so they are less interesting to me.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Judging an entire fan base off the at best 50-75 people that are responding to your slanted views is beyond moronic.

 

[O_P_T]

First of all, it wasn't a salary cap violation, it was a disbursement violation.

So?

Was it a violation of the rules or not?

The NFL certainly thought so since they sanctioned the Bronco's for it.

The key aspect to my point was that you stated that the punishment was so severe because the Patriots were repeat offenders.

Denver was as well with McDaniel's video tape infraction.

Second, I'm shocked you would have the audacity to bring up the Denver videotaping, as it was one of your own coaches who was responsible.

He was the Denver head coach at the time. It was the third significant infraction by the Broncos.

Illegal use of cameras cost the Pats a first round draft choice so why wasn't Denver docked a first round draft choice as well?

because the coach used to work for the pats?

They did what a class organization should do in a situation like that, fire the one responsible, take their punishment, and not try to defend the guilty.

So you're saying the fact that the Bronco's were 2 and 9 had nothing to do with his firing and it was simply the videotaping that was the reason?


Good thing you have no tolerance for BS

 

[PatsFanLisa]

Honestly? I'm generalizing here, so apologies in advance to those for whom this doesn't apply, but many of you think the Patriots are hated for their success. This isn't generally true in my experience. It's the fans. Many Patriot fans weren't even football fans until recently, but project a smug arrogance about success while simultaneously defending questionable behaviors. Despite winning 4 Lombardi trophies in the past 15 years, many of you claim NFL conspiracies exist to keep the Patriots down. When the Patriots lose, an event that happens to even the best of teams, there is a litany of excuses from those same NFL conspiracies, to the officiating, to injuries, etc.

I'm fascinated by the psychologies inherent in these behaviors, and equally fascinated by how those of you who are actually life long, true fans, tolerate the bandwagoners who spout so much nonsense.

The other fanbases just don't have as much of these dynamics present so they are less interesting to me.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about what any other fan base thinks of me or any of my cohorts. The Patriots have a stellar brand and always set themselves up for future wins.

I am a lifelong fan. I went to games as a teen in 1970. I have followed this team through all of the treks through hell. Let me state this in the simplest of terms.

Before Roger Goodell became the Commissioner of the NFL, there was never an issue with violation of rules or any other infractions. If teams broke the rules, they were penalized. End of story.

Fast forward to Goodell. Never in the history of this league has there been such flagrant and blatant treatment of a team as there has been with the New England Patriots, not only with the placement of cameras and the incredible fines and penalties that went along with that when it had only just become an issue and while other teams were still doing it, but with the football situation. Mike Ken sil was on hand at that game with specific intent to "get" the Patriots. Make no mistake about that. And he continued his assault. Why, you ask? Well, because he was a former employee of the Jets, or his father was, who fvcking cares, when Bill Belichick stuck it up their collective asses sideways and walked away from them, leaving them floating up shit's creek without paddles.

And then stating that if it took his entire life he would "get the Patriots". And that is a quote.

He leaked the info to Chris Mortensen.

He leaked the info to Bob Kravitz.

He continued to put out false information.

Roger Goodell did not come to one game of the Patriots this season...the Super Bowl-winning champions.

Roger Goodell did not correct one of the false reports perpetrated by his team.

Roger Goodell leaked to Stephen A. Smith on the day of his hearing that Brady "DESTROYED his phone", leaving the collective idiots of other fan bases to continue the perpetration of "OMGZ!!!! HE'S SO GUILTY!!! HE DESTROYED HIS PHONE!!!! because that is exactly what the NFL wanted so they could say "See??? We're doing the right thing here", when the truth of the matter was they had every single text and email that was on his phone, 10,000 of them in fact, and even PUBLISHED some of them.

Roger Goodell, with the assistance of his NY-based Third Reich has set out on a mission to fabricate and manipulate cherry-picked pieces of untruths that could appear to actually fool, well, morons. Not so much the media anymore, mind you, because they've all turned. They're all saying this should go away, some even stating that Goodell should give Kraft back the picks.

I could go on, but it's pointless.

As far as the studying the psychology of behaviors, let me sum it up for you. We expect the best and are never satisfied because we are the best. This is a city built on excellence in every way, and our sports are a big part of that.

But, by all means, continue your justifications for why the Patriots fan base is arrogant and hated and how nobody else's is. And then continue on your excuses for your team's non-cheating while our teams cheats. We're all enthralled.

 

[imapig]

Theres very few people I wish a torturous death one is Hitler, and the other Mike Kensil.

 

[imapig]

BSPOLICE its people like you who really dont have a clue what your talking about. Before 1960 many people here in NE were NY Giants Fans. Football has always been big here, but you wouldnt know that of course. I have been a fan of the Patriots since the early 70's. Ive watched ever game in our losing seasons including when we were 1-15.

You have a good grasp of the English language, and you write very well, however you are purposely ignoring many FACTS. By doing so it allows you to keep twisting the knife. You are certainly coming off as a condescending douche, and your act is tiring.

 

[HSanders]

Honestly? I'm generalizing here, so apologies in advance to those for whom this doesn't apply, but many of you think the Patriots are hated for their success. This isn't generally true in my experience. It's the fans. Many Patriot fans weren't even football fans until recently, but project a smug arrogance about success while simultaneously defending questionable behaviors. Despite winning 4 Lombardi trophies in the past 15 years, many of you claim NFL conspiracies exist to keep the Patriots down. When the Patriots lose, an event that happens to even the best of teams, there is a litany of excuses from those same NFL conspiracies, to the officiating, to injuries, etc.

I'm fascinated by the psychologies inherent in these behaviors, and equally fascinated by how those of you who are actually life long, true fans, tolerate the bandwagoners who spout so much nonsense.

The other fanbases just don't have as much of these dynamics present so they are less interesting to me.

If you want a whiny fanbase that is also arrogant and excuse making to a tolerance of +/- 1%, I suggest you try a Ravens board. Seriously, they are from Mars and every other fanbase is from Venus comparatively speaking. I think it's because a lot of their actual team starting with their head coach is whiny and excuse making and it permeates their mentality.

There are some arrogant closed minded fans of this team, just like of any other team. THAT SAID...what you and others can perceive as arrogance can also be defensiveness because some of us tire of reading and hearing the same lazy criticism of things of which our team has been accused.

It IS worse when the ignorance comes from people whose job it is to write or talk about sports though. Most of the opposing fans who squawk, I laugh off now.

 

[tehrick67]

This douche-nozzle is getting the attention he so desperately craves..

 

[deec77]

Honestly? I'm generalizing here, so apologies in advance to those for whom this doesn't apply, but many of you think the Patriots are hated for their success. This isn't generally true in my experience. It's the fans. Many Patriot fans weren't even football fans until recently, but project a smug arrogance about success while simultaneously defending questionable behaviors. Despite winning 4 Lombardi trophies in the past 15 years, many of you claim NFL conspiracies exist to keep the Patriots down. When the Patriots lose, an event that happens to even the best of teams, there is a litany of excuses from those same NFL conspiracies, to the officiating, to injuries, etc.

I'm fascinated by the psychologies inherent in these behaviors, and equally fascinated by how those of you who are actually life long, true fans, tolerate the bandwagoners who spout so much nonsense.

The other fanbases just don't have as much of these dynamics present so they are less interesting to me.

Oh please please give me your psychological diagnosis. Tell me about all those psychologies you find in Pats fans so inherent and fascinating. Then explain them to me and how you came about your diagnosis.

~Dee~

 

[Undertaker #59*]

It is always interesting when fans of other teams come here with the stereotype that the majority of Patriots fans started being fans in the last 15 years, when the majority of regular posters here have been fans for decades.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

BSPOLICE its people like you who really dont have a clue what your talking about. Before 1960 many people here in NE were NY Giants Fans. Football has always been big here, but you wouldnt know that of course. I have been a fan of the Patriots since the early 70's. Ive watched ever game in our losing seasons including when we were 1-15.

You have a good grasp of the English language, and you write very well, however you are purposely ignoring many FACTS. By doing so it allows you to keep twisting the knife. You are certainly coming off as a condescending douche, and your act is tiring.

 

[Patriots44]

It is always interesting when fans of other teams come here with the stereotype that the majority of Patriots fans started being fans in the last 15 years, when the majority of regular posters here have been fans for decades.

Well said! I'm tired of that lazy "most pats fans didn't watch football until 2001" or some lame variant.
Of all places to trot that out... a Pats Fan board! wicked smart there BS