The 2024 Draft

[HSanders]

@chevss454
i do agree mac hasn't had a great situation. that's part of why i have been more patient than some others. also,he has shown flashes and ability. what i meant w/the adversity comment was at times,he's shown his frustration to an extent i wish a leader wouldn't.

re: situation affecting a qb:i also think some have forgotten how skittish tb looked his first year back from injury in 09 and how many hospital balls he threw that year,both so unlike him. and somewhat similar in 2019,plus clock/time mgmt issues he never had before. that was more due to needing better players around him at his age imo. there's a reason people wiser than i am call the qb position the most dependent position on the field. to a degree,qbs can be measured by how they triumph over that and/or work within those constraints.

 

[chevss454]

@chevss454
i do agree mac hasn't had a great situation. that's part of why i have been more patient than some others. also,he has shown flashes and ability. what i meant w/the adversity comment was at times,he's shown his frustration to an extent i wish a leader wouldn't.

re: situation affecting a qb:i also think some have forgotten how skittish tb looked his first year back from injury in 09 and how many hospital balls he threw that year,both so unlike him. and somewhat similar in 2019,plus clock/time mgmt issues he never had before. that was more due to needing better players around him at his age imo. there's a reason people wiser than i am call the qb position the most dependent position on the field. to a degree,qbs can be measured by how they triumph over that and/or work within those constraints.

TB's frustration and outright anger were thought to be evidence of his passion and were good things. Perception and biases are very real.

I have a really hard time blaming the losses on Mac Jones when so many other things are going wrong at the same time.

Analytics say Mac's performance measures up pretty well this year when the game is on the line. This does not include the Washington game.

 

[ViperGTS]

This is the last best chance, I hope, for the Pats to reset their franchise. I do not want to be back at the top of the draft again. So, however that works it out works out. If you can get a QB, fine. Thats great. If you can't then get a legit WR. Then look for offensive line help with the next few picks. Then fill out the rest. The QB is is the issue. Mac isn't worth 30-40 million a year. So you need to get a QB at some point, and some point high in the draft.

As I have said, it sucks the Pats are so bad they could have the top pick, but you have a couple of teams that are somehow maybe, just a bit worse. 5th is NOT where you want to be in this draft. 3rd at worst is where they need to be.

 

[HSanders]

TB's frustration and outright anger were thought to be evidence of his passion and good things. Perception and biases are very real.

I have a really hard time blaming the losses on Mac Jones when so many other things are going wrong at the same time.

i wasn't a huge fan of tb's hissies either.
i do not usually blame losses on one player nor credit them with wins. i'm one of the few who HATES giving a qb a w-l record. there's almost no more fraudulent of a "stat" than that. the way i usually express it is what a guy does to help or hinder their team in games.

 

[HSanders]

Mac isn't worth 30-40 million a year.

regardless of where one falls on the mac scale,i can't believe anyone would disagree with this.

 

[HomelessJoe]

While this is true on the face of it, how do we know if Mac has truly regressed or if his situation (Patricia, injuries to the OL and lackluster WRs) has been the cause of his regression?
Lawrence had a bad situation with Urban Myer in year 1. We can all agree on that.
Mac had an "ok" situation in year 1, a bad situation in year 2 with Patricia and another bad situation in year 3 with an injury depleted OL and a bad WR group.
We know Lawrence improved when his situation improved. Is it fair to say Mac's performance should also improve with a better situation?
I think it's totally fair. Mac didn't suddenly go stupid or lose his ability to throw. Laying blame is more complicated than saying Mac is the problem.

At the same time it's perfectly reasonable for BB to draft a QB highly in this upcoming draft if the opportunity presents itself.
But, since we have a lot of holes to fill, it's also reasonable for BB to trade back and get 2 players, a stud O lineman and a stud D player after using FA and trades to fill the WR room.
Bottom line: we don't yet know what Mac would be with a better team around him. Mac needs another year in a better situation to prove himself the same as Lawrence got.

It's a bad situation for sure, but it's not hopeless. There are opportunities out there for Mac to make plays, and he simply doesn't do it at the rate I think he should. He's also had a knack of making bad plays worse. Poor blocking or poor WR separation is no excuse for some of the dumb interceptions he's thrown.

I was hoping his rookie year would be a baseline he could build off of, but now I feel like it's the best we can get out of him. And even if he manages to return to that form, I'm not sure that's even good enough to win anything in the current NFL.

 

[chevss454]

The QB is is the issue. Mac isn't worth 30-40 million a year. So you need to get a QB at some point, and some point high in the draft.

Count me as 1 who does not believe the QB is THE issue. This team has way too many issues for 1 person to be responsible for all the losses. Every individual, every position group, every coach and every injury has had a hand in every loss.

$30-$40M/year? Absolutely not. Next year he's due $2.8M and he's definitely worth that for another year, hoping the other issues are resolved. If he doesn't improve considerably with a much better situation then you move on. The 5th year option is off the table.

I'm all for signing a competent veteran FA QB for next year as well as drafting 1 highly in the draft if a clear improvement to Mac is available for us. Right now Caleb Williams seems to be the only 1 who fits that bill and he may stay in school another year. Planning ahead in the NFL always requires flexibility. Things change quickly.

 

[Peachhead]

Where do you have Jayden Daniels projected to go this year?

Jayden Daniels has become my chief binkie. I think he'll go higher than drafniks think (late 1st), but still in the Pats range (5-10). The dude has it all. Size, arm, accuracy, decision making, poise.

 

[aloyouis]

Silver lining: At least we don't have to stay up late on NFL Draft Night, we should be drafting in the top 5 this year.

Do you have a line yet on what safety Bill plans to draft with the number three spot?

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Problem with Mac and it always was and will be is arm strength. Period. People can nit pick a throw here or there and say "See! See! He has a good enough arm". Well the truth of the matter is he doesn't and that's why they can't win games. Hell his accuracy has gone down the toilet as well outside of a throw here or there.

Almost as if it's a problem with his mechanics!

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Mac isn’t the whole problem, but, he’s definitely part of the problem. He’s not worth a second contract. It should be VERY obvious by now.

 

[TommyD420]

Perspective is everything. Supporting cast is essential. Key injuries are devastating. Under performing WRs are catastrophic.

Mac and #1 overall pick Trevor Lawrence have equivalent stats yet one is considered excellent and one may be dispensable.

Trevor Lawrence since being drafted (1st overall, 2021):

• 42 games played
• 931/1457 (64%)
• 9,689 passing yards
• 46 TD’s
• 29 INT’s
• 85.3 passer rating
• 18 wins

Mac Jones since being drafted (15th overall, 2021):

• 39 games played
• 813/1223 (67%)
• 8,439 passing yards
• 45 TD’s
• 32 INT’s
• 87.6 passer rating
• 18 wins

Almost identical careers from these two 2021 QB prospects. Maybe Mac isn't as bad as fans think. Or maybe Lawrence isn't as good as people think.

Since 2021:

Lawrence:

25 Games:
572/858 (66.7%)
6048 Passing Yards
34 TDs
12 INTs
94.3 rating
15 wins (16 inc. playoffs)

Jones:

23 Games:
485/746 (65.0%)
4858 Passing Yards
24 TDs
20 INTs
82.9 Passer Rating
8 Wins

What are we even talking about here? Unless you're telling me Christian Kirk is somehow Jerry Rice, of course. Mac Jones had a better rookie season than Trevor Lawrence. Since then it's beyond obvious who the better QB is. (and if you listened to some people, since Urban Meyer was his coach his rookie year, you're allowed to completely ignore the numbers he put up, unless Urban Meyer is better than Matt Patricia, of course) To deny this clear and obvious fact is either copium or simply some weird fanboying.

 

[TommyD420]

Count me as 1 who does not believe the QB is THE issue. This team has way too many issues for 1 person to be responsible for all the losses. Every individual, every position group, every coach and every injury has had a hand in every loss.

$30-$40M/year? Absolutely not. Next year he's due $2.8M and he's definitely worth that for another year, hoping the other issues are resolved. If he doesn't improve considerably with a much better situation then you move on. The 5th year option is off the table.

I'm all for signing a competent veteran FA QB for next year as well as drafting 1 highly in the draft if a clear improvement to Mac is available for us. Right now Caleb Williams seems to be the only 1 who fits that bill and he may stay in school another year. Planning ahead in the NFL always requires flexibility. Things change quickly.

He's not THE issue. But to pretend he's not a MAJOR issue is just willful blindness in my mind. I don't think you can move him, because I don't think you're going to get anything for him, because I'm not entirely sure if his 5th year option transfers to the new team or not, and even if it does, I'm not sure you're going to get any sort of return for him. So absolutely keep him on the roster next year. And absolutely have at least 2 other viable options (a FA and a draft pick) to legitimately compete in camp for the job. His fee-fees are unimportant right now, because he hasn't earned the right.

 

[TommyD420]

Almost as if it's a problem with his mechanics!

It's absolutely a problem with his mechanics, mechanics which have regressed since his rookie year.

 

[Hawg73]

Do you have a line yet on what safety Bill plans to draft with the number three spot?

Absolutely. Since there aren't any 250lb. Safeties yet, Bill will go with the next biggest available.

James Williams from the U. He's listed at 6-5/224, but he can fill out some as he matures. Our GM
is bound and determined to field the first Defense comprised of 11 Safeties, so we'll need
to add Williams and several other scrappy prospects who were recommended by Bill's buddies
and all love to practice and watch film.

Oh, and all of those guys are versatile. Natch. We don't know if they can tackle or cover anybody, but we
can put them anywhere much like Myles Bryant. That doesn't mean they can actually play the
position, but technically you could put them there. Versatility is real important.

 

[OSUBuckeye]

Lawrence's rookie season was his absolute floor, while Mac's rookie season seems to be his absolute ceiling. Lawrence has improved, Mac has regressed.

And he first season was a throw away because Urban Meyer.

 

[chevss454]

Since 2021:

Lawrence:

25 Games:
572/858 (66.7%)
6048 Passing Yards
34 TDs
12 INTs
94.3 rating
15 wins (16 inc. playoffs)

Jones:

23 Games:
485/746 (65.0%)
4858 Passing Yards
24 TDs
20 INTs
82.9 Passer Rating
8 Wins

What are we even talking about here? Unless you're telling me Christian Kirk is somehow Jerry Rice, of course. Mac Jones had a better rookie season than Trevor Lawrence. Since then it's beyond obvious who the better QB is. (and if you listened to some people, since Urban Meyer was his coach his rookie year, you're allowed to completely ignore the numbers he put up, unless Urban Meyer is better than Matt Patricia, of course) To deny this clear and obvious fact is either copium or simply some weird fanboying.

I'll tell you what I'm talking about.

I'm saying there's something there with Mac Jones to work with. He was good as a rookie. He read defenses, he had better mechanics, he had better accuracy. Can he get back to those things with better coaching? I don't know but unless Patricia and now BOB along with this injury riddled O line have completely broken his spirit and made him forget everything he learned over his years about the QB position there's no reason to believe a better QB coach and OC along with a better OL and WRs can't resurrect his once promising career. I'm saying with a better situation next year that Mac might get back to being to being the guy who broke Joe Burrow's records in college. I'm also saying the Patriots' smartest move would be correct ALL the ills on the OL and rebuild a reasonably good WR room to regain the asset they buried with their own futility. Those things have to be fixed with or without Mac. I'm saying BB had a big hand in breaking Mac and now BB has to do everything he can to help Mac become not only the player he was 2 years ago but also to blossom into an improved version of that rookie so that he can grow into the QB we all once thought he could be. I'm saying that providing the right tools to help Mac succeed is the fastest way to help the fortunes of this franchise. Give him the same infrastructure TB had early in his career and see what he becomes.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I've lost faith in Mac but even if they do replace him, BB needs to stop sucking and build a better offense (OL / WR) at some point. Been a mess for years.

 

[rivshark86]

If Mac could stay on a rookie deal forever, and BB could prove he could turn around 15 years of awful drafting fine. Keep Mac.
After next year Mac is gonna want 40 million a year.
Let me repeat that. After next next Mac will want at LEAST 40 million per year.
There are smart football minds on this forum. That’s insane.
The best thing that could happen this offseason would be to can BB, and draft hopefully the next CJ stroud. Maybe Mac can hold the rookie off for 3 games. I doubt it.
Mac will go somewhere else and be overpaid and below average for a few years and then be a back up somewhere else, then be out of the league.

I have never for the life of me understood the attachment to Mac jones on this forum. We have all watched a lot of NFL football it was clear from his rookie year he is at best a guy like Andy Dalton.

 

[aloyouis]

I'll tell you what I'm talking about.

I'm saying there's something there with Mac Jones to work with. He was good as a rookie. He read defenses, he had better mechanics, he had better accuracy. Can he get back to those things with better coaching? I don't know but unless Patricia and now BOB along with this injury riddled O line have completely broken his spirit and made him forget everything he learned over his years about the QB position there's no reason to believe a better QB coach and OC along with a better OL and WRs can't resurrect his once promising career. I'm saying with a better situation next year that Mac might get back to being to being the guy who broke Joe Burrow's records in college. I'm also saying the Patriots' smartest move would be correct ALL the ills on the OL and rebuild a reasonably good WR room to regain the asset they buried with their own futility. Those things have to be fixed with or without Mac. I'm saying BB had a big hand in breaking Mac and now BB has to do everything he can to help Mac become not only the player he was 2 years ago but also to blossom into an improved version of that rookie so that he can grow into the QB we all once thought he could be. I'm saying that providing the right tools to help Mac succeed is the fastest way to help the fortunes of this franchise. Give him the same infrastructure TB had early in his career and see what he becomes.

This. For the sake of the Patriots---- go forward this!