If the season ended today, the Patriots would come to Kansas City.

I don't know that it's a 'blip on the radar' or with 8 in the box it's poor execution. (I hope these things are true) What I saw was our DL getting manhandled with no answer in the way of changing the scheme. This is the part that is concerning to me. It was broken and he didn't fix it. (I realize he tried changing personnel multiple times but how about changing gap control or try overloading or try movement in the front 8 to confuse a rookie QB? Something!)
 
I don't know that it's a 'blip on the radar' or with 8 in the box it's poor execution. (I hope these things are true) What I saw was our DL getting manhandled with no answer in the way of changing the scheme. This is the part that is concerning to me. It was broken and he didn't fix it. (I realize he tried changing personnel multiple times but how about changing gap control or try overloading or try movement in the front 8 to confuse a rookie QB? Something!)

So you have been generally unhappy with the development of the D week to week?
 
So you have been generally unhappy with the development of the D week to week?

No, not generally unhappy. Just very unhappy with Hillis having the best game by a RB against us since LdT in 2002. His run game was the reason the game was lost and there was no answer. Telling your boys to put up more effort goes only so far. At some point a coach has to realize a change in scheme is needed and then that coach has to know what to do to fix it. Whiff on both counts.

But tell me. The Pats are still LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and 23rd in RZ defense. Is this what we expected?

I understand some of this is because the D hasn't been protected by the offense. But at some point the DC has to know what to do to put his players in position to be successful.
 
I don't know that it's a 'blip on the radar' or with 8 in the box it's poor execution. (I hope these things are true) What I saw was our DL getting manhandled with no answer in the way of changing the scheme. This is the part that is concerning to me. It was broken and he didn't fix it. (I realize he tried changing personnel multiple times but how about changing gap control or try overloading or try movement in the front 8 to confuse a rookie QB? Something!)

It wasn't really the rookie QB to deal with.

Their fatties just bitch-slapped our fatties from start to finish, focused on Mayo, and put the onus on Spikes. It didn't work, for us. Hillis is the one who decimated us.
 
No, not generally unhappy. Just very unhappy with Hillis having the best game by a RB against us since LdT in 2002. His run game was the reason the game was lost and there was no answer. Telling your boys to put up more effort goes only so far. At some point a coach has to realize a change in scheme is needed and then that coach has to know what to do to fix it. Whiff on both counts.

But tell me. The Pats are still LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and 23rd in RZ defense. Is this what we expected?

I understand some of this is because the D hasn't been protected by the offense. But at some point the DC has to know what to do to put his players in position to be successful.

There's ZERO mention of BB, who by all accounts and he himself has said, would have a bigger hand in developing and installing the Defense. If he can't "figure" out how to stop them, none of his underlings are gonna.:shrug:
 
No, not generally unhappy. Just very unhappy with Hillis having the best game by a RB against us since LdT in 2002. His run game was the reason the game was lost and there was no answer. Telling your boys to put up more effort goes only so far. At some point a coach has to realize a change in scheme is needed and then that coach has to know what to do to fix it. Whiff on both counts.

But tell me. The Pats are still LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and 23rd in RZ defense. Is this what we expected?

I understand some of this is because the D hasn't been protected by the offense. But at some point the DC has to know what to do to put his players in position to be successful.

When Bodden went down and with the youth on defense, I didn't know exactly what to expect but we are 6-2 with the Brown's loss being my "blip". So despite the STATS I see good progress. Am I happy with where they are right now? Of course not but in this league if it all comes together week to week peaking in January that is what it is all about.
*takes a sip of some watered down Kool Aid* :)
 
Let's not kid ourselves... The defense has played way over expectations this year and has improved by leaps and bounds from week 1.
 
Let's not kid ourselves... The defense has played way over expectations this year and has improved by leaps and bounds from week 1.

I want to believe the D has improved but I don't see the vast improvement you see. The Pats are STILL LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and are still 23rd in RZ defense.

Some individuals are playing better from the early season. I'd put McCourty in this group and possibly Cunningham. But I can't find others that I think have actually improved individually. (Mayo and Wilfork started out very well and are still playing at a high level.) One could argue that TBC's play has actually worsened. I wish I had more time but I have things to do so I can't continue this. If you have time, maybe you could point out those players who you believe have improved significantly over the course of the year.
 
I want to believe the D has improved but I don't see the vast improvement you see. The Pats are STILL LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and are still 23rd in RZ defense.

Some individuals are playing better from the early season. I'd put McCourty in this group and possibly Cunningham. But I can't find others that I think have actually improved individually. (Mayo and Wilfork started out very well and are still playing at a high level.) One could argue that TBC's play has actually worsened. I wish I had more time but I have things to do so I can't continue this. If you have time, maybe you could point out those players who you believe have improved significantly over the course of the year.

Cleveland hung one on us, for sure. But take a look at the games before that. Against a very competent Baltimore team, we allowed 20. We allowed 20 against San Diego, which is supposed to be the league's best offense. 14 against Miami (they might not be all that great offensively, but they've beaten a lot of tough teams this year) and 18 against Minnesota.

Improvement, IMO, is there.
 
I'm not sure that would be the case and I have a tremendous respect for Matt Cassel. It isn't often that a guy like him comes literally out of nowhere, gives no indication he can be an NFL QB in several years with a team and then comes in to replace an injured legend and grows into the job quickly and does very well. Nobody in New England wanted to lose him, but he simply was too good to sit on the bench here.

I assume you know this, but Cassel's father passed away late in '08 and Matt started that week and had a tremendous, inspiring game. I was already impressed with him, but that game made me believe that he not only had ability and smarts, but the kind of balls that you need to be a top QB in this league. Not many have all 3 of those components. It's great to see him and the Chiefs have some success this year for a change.

No matter what happens to him in KC or elsewhere, that is a kid that I want to see hit it big. If the Pats don't end up contending for a title this year and the Chiefs do, then I would have no problem pulling for them, but there is a long way to go.


Perfectly and eloquently written what my thoughts are. :thumb:
 
If you have time, maybe you could point out those players who you believe have improved significantly over the course of the year.

- McCourty
- Cunningham (and much more than a little)
- Warren (not just the young guys)
- Brace (much)
- Deaderick (much)
- Crable (from zero, sure, but much improved)
- Chung (from weeks 1&2? Leaps and bounds as he emerged as a leader on this defense)
- Arrington
- Wilhite (eh...maybe)
- Fletcher
- Page
...and I'd probably toss Meriweather in there as well.

On the other hand, I've seen declines with Ninko, Butler, Guyton, Spikes, Tully, and maybe Wright (but he's far enough up on the performance scale to still be solid.)

Of all the "troublesome" defensive stats, only 1 really bothers me, and that's red zone defense. The rest of it is scheme based - that is, by design.

The bend but don't break philosophy creates the rest of that stuff. If your focus is to stop the big plays, you're giving up the underneath stuff by design, and then when the offense gets down to the red zone, they no longer have to take away the big play and can clamp down. Anywhere else on the field, Belichick would rather make sure the QB checks down to his shorter reads, and after that the DBs play to have a 15% chance of knocking it down, a 3% chance of picking it off, but a 90% chance of making an immediate tackle after the catch rather than a 25% chance of knocking it down, a 5% chance of intercepting it, but only a 70% chance of making an immediate tackle after a catch.

- Total Offense? Check
- Opposing QBR? Absolutely - that stat is biased towards the short precision passing game, which is what Belichick is willing to give up.
TOP? Obviously, but that's a huge part of the reason that Belichick places so much emphasis on depth and rotations, especially on defence. It all fits together.
3rd down %? Yeah, that too. On 3rd down the #1 priority is still to prevent the big play.
Sacks/pressure/time before the QB passes? Yeah. Well, total sacks are very good, but not sacks/passing play. Remember that the Patriots have a much higher than average # of defensive snaps per game. But if you are forcing a QB to check down and go through his reads, he's going to be back there longer. But they're also blitzing less, especially with so many young players.
Points allowed? Well obviously that's the crux of it. But fix the red zone defense and the points will follow, because almost all touchdown against the Patriots come from the red zone.

I would like to see better turnover numbers. But fix the red zone, and everything else is fine. :shrug:
 
Wut wut? You don't think he's high on the performance scale, or you don't think he's declined some since the beginning of the year?
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No, not generally unhappy. Just very unhappy with Hillis having the best game by a RB against us since LdT in 2002. His run game was the reason the game was lost and there was no answer. Telling your boys to put up more effort goes only so far. At some point a coach has to realize a change in scheme is needed and then that coach has to know what to do to fix it. Whiff on both counts.

But tell me. The Pats are still LAST in 3rd down D (can't get any worse), 23rd in points allowed (getting worse, not better) and 23rd in RZ defense. Is this what we expected?

I understand some of this is because the D hasn't been protected by the offense. But at some point the DC has to know what to do to put his players in position to be successful.

Hillis is actually one of the main reasons why McDaniels might be fired. He is a stud that was traded for a big bust. Still blows my mind why BB didn't trade someone for him.
 
Wut wut? You don't think he's high on the performance scale, or you don't think he's declined some since the beginning of the year?
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I don't think he's declined since the beginning of the year. Curious to know why you think he has.
 
I don't think he's declined since the beginning of the year. Curious to know why you think he has.
He's a DL that is not a pass rushing specialist or an everydown player, so it's hard to quantify. But he was outstanding in Cincinatti, Buffalo, and Miami, kind of in Baltimore, but has faded a bit since then. You don't see him as much, and he's not a Ty Warren type that when you don't see him that's a good sign.

Some of that is probably tied to the development and increased playing time of Deaderick and Brace, though.
 
He's a DL that is not a pass rushing specialist or an everydown player, so it's hard to quantify. But he was outstanding in Cincinatti, Buffalo, and Miami, kind of in Baltimore, but has faded a bit since then. You don't see him as much, and he's not a Ty Warren type that when you don't see him that's a good sign.

Some of that is probably tied to the development and increased playing time of Deaderick and Brace, though.
Pity, he declined so much he started at Cleveland. Perhaps we can take the heat off Brady and blame the loss on Mike? :huh:
 
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