NFL Concussion Issue - NYT Article

[Darth Despot]

How many college programs are folding?

And where is their liability in all this?

They(the NCAA) is making mountains of cash with no payroll. Players aren't getting their concussion history solely in the NFL, yet most seem inclined to hold them solely responsible. Even HSs.

Without the athletes that can play other sports taking roster spots, the holes will just be filled with lesser caliber players. Watered down. But still viable.

There's 300+ NCAA programs right? 2-3% drafted. Probably 80% of the kids that aren't would give their left nut to play in the show.

They'll always be players.

You've actually hit on the trigger here.

Insurance.

Once folks start going back and hitting their college and even their high schools the liability insurance is going to get too expensive. The only reason the NFL is first on the liability bandwagon is that they have the deepest pockets.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

More and more kids are leaving football at the HS level.
That's not just s trend; those numbers are climbing every year. And it'll increase dramatically as time goes on.

Source?

Or just wishful opinion?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The NFL will die when colleges can no longer afford to run football programs. The players certainly don't want to kill the sport. The fans don't want the sport to go away. Wall Street doesn't want to see the game go away. And of course the owners don't. Everyone in reality wants the game to go on. Lawyers will work hard to make money for those that have suffered the head trauma, but all those others forces will stand in the way. Eventually they will come up with come disclaimer that all players must sign that spells out the risk. That consent form is not in place for those who have played and already retired. They are the ones who will get a settlement.

Auto racing faced similar challenges years ago. The cars are incredibly safe now, but there is still a known risk. Drivers are willing to accept that risk. Now the players will have to accept the risk of NFL football.

What will kill the game is if the pipeline dries up. If PeeWee, Metro, middle and high school football dies, the NFL will die too.

Exactly.

When the settlement comes, and it will - for Billions, the NFL will readily admit and acknowledge play could and often does come with life altering or ending effects and if you do decide to sign and play you do so at your own risk.

Done.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

it will take 10 years for pop warner decline to hit the College Football than and other 10 to hit the NFL. Expansion will expedite the process.

many people are holding kids out of PopWarner football and allowing high school play - problem is by then they discover a different sport. See LAX increase in numbers.

Lax is a poor example. Spring season vs fall.

Lax is booming because baseball is boring. And more and more hockey players are finding it the perfect complimentary off season sport.

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

Let me restate:

First off, there is no such thing as an ironclad liability waiver. If negligence is found on the part of the league, any waiver will be void.

I think the NFL will continue to exist but that it will be a lot smaller and less profitable than it is today and the valuations of the teams will drop from $1 billion to $200-300 million.

Fewer young kids will play the game draining the talent pool. Eventually colleges will start to be effected by the liability issues, and it will be impossible for them to shield themselves because the remuneration is so small (around 60k per year) compared to the revenue, which is on a par with the NFL. The Courts are going to void their liability waivers so fast it will make heads spin.

Once the free farm system is gone and there are not as many players in the talent pool the economic model will be broken.

There will always be a market for the NFL, but there is no holy reason it has to be the #1 sport in America. Boxing still exists, but it's a shell of what it was 30 years ago, never mind when it was by far the biggest sport in the country.

Baseball was once on a pedestal, until it wasn't.

The only inevitable is change.

Of course there is an iron clad waiver.

It just takes admitting the potential is there. Something they won't do until settlement numbers are decided.

 

[PatsFan09]

Source? Or just wishful opinion?

ISL football coaches are already taking about it. Many of their best football players are either dropping football in high school or are opting to play another sport (often basketball) in college.
A good friend of mine played at BC, played in the NFL for 6 years, then coached at BC, now coaches at my school.
Believe me, he's seeing it, and he's recruiting every day.

 

[chevss454]

Alarming study by BU CTE group published in the Journal of Neurotrauma on repeated hits to the head in 93 hs & college kids led to depression, apathy, or memory loss years later.

The more subconscussive blows, the study found, the higher the chance of a brain-related malady later in life.
“That is absolutely what this study should be doing—getting people to start thinking about the cumulative effect of these repetitive blows to the head,” said Montenigro. “This research can’t say anything definitive, but it should give parents an idea that repeated blows at an early age, and not just concussions, should be monitored. What’s apparent is that concussions suffered did not predict cognitive impairment. But subconcussive hits did predict cognitive impairment, depression and apathy.”

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/03/...e-broncos-49ers-titans-jalen-ramsey-nfl-draft

 

[Hawg73]

Alarming study by BU CTE group published in the Journal of Neurotrauma on repeated hits to the head in 93 hs & college kids led to depression, apathy, or memory loss years later.

I wanted to read it. I really did, but the whole thing is really getting to me. I'm not even sure if I want to follow football anymore. I mean what's the point? It all seems so futile.

Wait.....what were we talking about again?

 

[BostonTim]

Wait.....what were we talking about again?

C'mon man, focus.

Cheers

 

[BostonTim]

If ever there was a "BOOM! ROASTED!" moment on the internet, this is quite possibly it. The Times has responded to the NFL's letter threatening them to retract. It is beyond awesome. I'll pull one sentences, the last sentence. Everything prior to it is just Konditor Meister buttercream frosting on a very expensive cake. (KM is a premier wedding baker that charges upwards of $5k for wedding cakes).



The end.

The letter in full and well worth reading: http://www.capitalnewyork.com/sites...SPONSE-TO-NFL.pdf?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur

I've been away, so I'm late to this dance Lisa. but it's just too funny and pathetic.

Here's Tom Leyley's analysis of the response letter over at Deadspin. ROFL

http://deadspin.com/new-york-times-responds-to-nfls-demand-for-retraction-1768035969

This week, NFL lawyers sent a letter to The New York Times demanding that the Times’s recent investigation into the league’s bogus concussion studies be retracted. It was so limp that it demanded a proper takedown. Thankfully, the Times was happy to oblige, via a response letter from their own lawyers.


NFL Demands Retraction From New York Times

The NFL is still all worked up about that New York Times story that revealed the league’s initial…
You can read the full letter here, but here are the highlights:

As you know, The Times has a policy of correcting factual errors as promptly as possible. I have reviewed your letter with our editors and reporters, and nowhere does your letter identify any factual error that we have made in our reporting on the ties between the NFL and the tobacco industry. The crux of the letter is the NFL’s complaint that the connections identified by the Article between the NFL and the tobacco industry were not “meaningful.”

Obviously, that is an opinion, not a fact.
We’re off to a good start. The “Ummmmmm, do you even know the difference between a fact and an opinion???” burn has ended many message-board beefs, and it’s a good, solid opening salvo. Moving on:

As for the Articles’ reporting on the concussion studies, the letter confirms the overarching point that the Article made: The league’s research was deeply flawed and incomplete. The letter bizarrely quibbles not over whether the research was valid (we all agree that it was not) or whether the NFL defended the research for years (we all agree that it did) but whether the NFL continued to “stand by” the research.

Translation: “Lol, good job owning yourself while trying to own us.” That’s a good one, but let’s see if the Times can kick it up a notch:

Little needs to be said about the letter’s second criticism of the reporting on the data. The criticism is premised on a falsehood: that the Article alleged that the NFL “intentionally concealed concussion data.” It said nothing of the sort.

The NFL’s on the ropes! Go for the knockout:

While your earlier letter to The Times called the tobacco industry “perhaps the most odious industry in America history,” you somehow fail to mention in either letter that it was your firm that represented Phillip Morris in that RICO case.

*Italian chef kissing his fingers gesture*

Tom Leyley@deadspin.com@ToLey88
News Editor

Cheers, BostonTim

 

[PatsFanLisa]

Second-year player for the Bills, A.J. Tarpley has retired citing fear for his future health after having several concussions since college. He said after doing his OWN research, he's decided it's just too dangerous.

Also retiring, Austin Collie, who we all know was hung out to dry repeatedly by his then QB, Peyton Manning, and received numerous concussions.

 

[chevss454]

Second-year player for the Bills, A.J. Tarpley has retired citing fear for his future health after having several concussions since college. He said after doing his OWN research, he's decided it's just too dangerous.

Also retiring, Austin Collie, who we all know was hung out to dry repeatedly by his then QB, Peyton Manning, and received numerous concussions.

I think we may see more players like Tarpley who call it quits because of the results of the preliminary studies on repeated head trauma as a cause of CTE.

Players who call it quits have either made their money, have an alternative career waiting or are overwhelmed by fear of becoming zombies. I don't blame them.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I think we may see more players like Tarpley who call it quits because of the results of the preliminary studies on repeated head trauma as a cause of CTE.

Players who call it quits have either made their money, have an alternative career waiting or are overwhelmed by fear of becoming zombies. I don't blame them.

Although I wouldn't want to see him go, Butler's a model for this type of thing.

Come into the league, make some cash on your rookie contract (manage the money well), win a SB ring, say goodbye.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Although I wouldn't want to see him go, Butler's a model for this type of thing.

Come into the league, make some cash on your rookie contract (manage the money well), win a SB ring, say goodbye.

Butlers a terrible example.

He hasn't been paid dick. And even his second contract will pale in comparison to someone like Watt.

He did achieve fame in possibly the best SB play of all time.

 

[Mazz22]

Second-year player for the Bills, A.J. Tarpley has retired citing fear for his future health after having several concussions since college. He said after doing his OWN research, he's decided it's just too dangerous.

Also retiring, Austin Collie, who we all know was hung out to dry repeatedly by his then QB, Peyton Manning, and received numerous concussions.

And the trend continues to guys leaving the game. I think that Times piece has hit home with some players. The NFL is getting hit at both ends - current players retiring early and young boys opting to not play the sport.

 

[dchester]

Second-year player for the Bills, A.J. Tarpley has retired citing fear for his future health after having several concussions since college. He said after doing his OWN research, he's decided it's just too dangerous.

Also retiring, Austin Collie, who we all know was hung out to dry repeatedly by his then QB, Peyton Manning, and received numerous concussions.

No one threw hospital balls the way that Manning did.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Butlers a terrible example.

He hasn't been paid dick. And even his second contract will pale in comparison to someone like Watt.

He did achieve fame in possibly the best SB play of all time.

Maybe in relative terms, but let's be real... he's made more than enough to set himself up financially going forward.

My main point was winning a ring on the rookie contract. You play for a few years, make smart financial decisions, win a ring, and then get out with minimal physical consequences. I'm sure there are better examples.

 

[DeflateThis]

Gronk is propably a better example for you? He could walk away after his current contract expires.

 

[mikiemo83]

Butler has made 410,000, 510,000 and will make 600,000 this season but is so low one the pay list he doesn't count against the cap as 53 are paid more.

http://patscap.com

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ----------

Maybe in relative terms, but let's be real... he's made more than enough to set himself up financially going forward.

My main point was winning a ring on the rookie contract. You play for a few years, make smart financial decisions, win a ring, and then get out with minimal physical consequences. I'm sure there are better examples.

If you are a 1st round pick but butler is less than 1 million made so far.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Butler has made 410,000, 510,000 and will make 600,000 this season but is so low one the pay list he doesn't count against the cap as 53 are paid more.

http://patscap.com

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ----------


If you are a 1st round pick but butler is less than 1 million made so far.

I think people grossly underestimate how much money one needs to live a comfortable life moving forward.

Then again, there's a good chance he (like many others) didn't save/invest his money anyway.

 

[bideau]

I think people grossly underestimate how much money one needs to live a comfortable life moving forward.

Then again, there's a good chance he (like many others) didn't save/invest his money anyway.

Especially since most players have no clear prospects/skills after football. Taking Butler as an example, he was making minimum wage at a fast food chain before he got his break. Someone retiring in their 20's is looking at 50-60 years of life still to come. A couple of million will only go so far. It's a damned nice base to start from, but the money will run out pretty quick without other real employment.

 

[mikiemo83]

I think people grossly underestimate how much money one needs to live a comfortable life moving forward.

Then again, there's a good chance he (like many others) didn't save/invest his money anyway.

I was pointing out how Butler could not walk away in the example you used. I did not underestimate the amount.